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Development - MNBIOS future?

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Autor

MNBIOS future?

flyguille
msx master
Mensajes: 1183
Publicado: Enero 21 2004, 18:16   
Did recently somebody ask me how future has the mnbios... due to the endless vicious circle of the one that if there is not soft there are not users and if there are not users... Because who will develop the soft?.


It is my desire to share with you my vision in this respect.

Q: Then, basically, at least as me I see it, for my the MNBIOS is like a series of routines that me they help in the programming in ASM (since personally, at the moment, I don't believe that it uses any hard that doesn't come from series in a MSX2)

A: That is in fact the idea of the MNBIOS, in fact what forced me to its
I develop in 1996, with the result that the MNBIOS runs in a normal MSX2 without any
type of modifications, and it is hoped to support the MSX1 including a
Alternative VDP9938/58 in the expansion.


With the result that the MNBIOS is a very interesting proposal that stands out of
other projects like the brazil where a special hardware should be bought
to begin. Contrary to this last project, the MNBIOS would allow to break the vicious circle that if there is not soft there are not users and if there is not users are not hardware neither evolution.


Another great advantage of the MNBIOS is that we speak of breaking the barrier of those 4MB of RAM, imagine what they have made the brazil people, they armed all one
mother that reminds me at a 286 and they fell in the poor limitation of using the one
same paginador of 8 well-known bits already in the MSX2, that is to say they cut him those wings from the beginning.

It is true that the MNBIOS is very futurist, (1GB of RAM, 7 sub-systems
with CPUs that can be any micro compatible z80 as for E.g. the eZ80
that runs at 88mhz). But it is not necessary that make now, but rather
it can leave arming as we go having the necessity to have it.

And on the contrary that other developers we publish those
electronic outlines, because this project doesn't seek to be a business
for few, but a platform for many. And that makes to the users, to the one
future and to the success.!. of course we speak of a lot of work for before.

In fact following the vision "OPEN PROJECT" I plan to publish the code
source of user's interface, since the same one is a file EXEC
independent and it would be an interesting educational starting point for many
and it would even encourage to develop other distrubuciones. But I don't go to
to publish the code source of the kernel so that the bull not control and
lose the rule number 1 "An application will be able to run in all the msx of the
world, because what changes is the sub-version of the kernel and not the
application."

The poor supports of the bios conventional msx for the programming in
assembler was what forced me to develop this S.O. you can say that it is
a group of librarys but be say bad that, since not alone we speak
of runtimes, we speak of new structures, that today program
to run in a diskette tomorrow will work on a CD-ROM without modifying the
application.

If you have followed the news of the page web, you will know that there are many
articles to make, before at least we are published the first version.
When I mentioned that it will be at the end of January, perhaps I didn't take into account that I should share my time with other activities, besides the inclusion to last moment of some more articles, since if I don't modify it now before that the standard one comes out, I won't be able to never modify it more to maintain the rule 1.

The wait will be worthwhile and alone we speak of the kernel and the interface of the one
user, I ignore the time that i will take me to transfer the compiler + editor
to use the standard MNBIOS at the moment, because I seek that it is one
complete suite so that all the programmers as me are comfortable.


In first instance I will publish 2 kernels, the one that works with my
diskdriver (Talent or Daewo DPF 550 / 555) that alone the Argentineans have, and
a parallel version of the kernel that instead of incorporating a DISK DRIVER
a HDD will bring DRIVER to use it with the "sunrise IDE cartridge" since
I understand that it is very popular and for a lot of time and in many countrys,
although in the personal thing I don't have one, that will make it is to publish the one
circuit of this cartridge Sunrise IDE so that anyone can arm it
with components easy to buy in any electronic house of the world. What do you say? What i would have legal conflicts with Sunrise for the royalties?, No, because single use as starting point the one map of registers of this cartridge (a file published by sunrise), not , I not even need to have one so that by means of inverse engineering
to develop a twin circuit. It is very as to what happens to the one
software, where a company devises an interface of services (API) and others
they duplicate that interface to obtain compatibility (E.g. CP/M to MS-DOS) but
they never copied neither they saw the code source, because it simply is not necessary.
Another example is the automobile where all copied "the steering wheel" of the one that him it invented. This alone it will bring 2 consequences, the first one is to increase the sale of this cartridge in Sunrise, since a thing is the quality of a product in series and another thing is something armed in the home. And the other consequence is that people impoverished by the IMF like all the Argentineans can arm a spending single u$s5, total anyway same we would not buy to sunrise (as u$s40 that would represent the work of 4 days for a cartridge).


I wait to have clarified some points. And I wait for them to see typing and
a lot.!!!! I wish Them many COMPLETE projects!!!.


flyguille



The developers can subscribe can make it from:

http://www.mnbios.com.ar
http://usuarios.arnet.com.ar/flyguille

In the section Mail List.

Greetings to all the colleagues.
sunrise
msx professional
Mensajes: 649
Publicado: Enero 21 2004, 20:38   
Quote:


In first instance I will publish 2 kernels, the one that works with my
diskdriver (Talent or Daewo DPF 550 / 555) that alone the Argentineans have, and
a parallel version of the kernel that instead of incorporating a DISK DRIVER
a HDD will bring DRIVER to use it with the "sunrise IDE cartridge" since
I understand that it is very popular and for a lot of time and in many countrys,
although in the personal thing I don't have one, that will make it is to publish the one
circuit of this cartridge Sunrise IDE so that anyone can arm it
with components easy to buy in any electronic house of the world. What do you say? What i would have legal conflicts with Sunrise for the royalties?, No, because single use as starting point the one map of registers of this cartridge (a file published by sunrise), not , I not even need to have one so that by means of inverse engineering
to develop a twin circuit. It is very as to what happens to the one
software, where a company devises an interface of services (API) and others
they duplicate that interface to obtain compatibility (E.g. CP/M to MS-DOS) but
they never copied neither they saw the code source, because it simply is not necessary.
Another example is the automobile where all copied "the steering wheel" of the one that him it invented. This alone it will bring 2 consequences, the first one is to increase the sale of this cartridge in Sunrise, since a thing is the quality of a product in series and another thing is something armed in the home. And the other consequence is that people impoverished by the IMF like all the Argentineans can arm a spending single u$s5, total anyway same we would not buy to sunrise (as u$s40 that would represent the work of 4 days for a cartridge).




I donot follow you. You say I want to improve the selling of the Sunrise ide ?
Well nice but it already sold that well and is still popular even as its CF- 'Brother'
If you want to support in in Mnbios you are welcome ofcourse but using drivers of us I would appreciate at least that you contact and you forget that the money you talk about are components and not labour costs

Grauw
msx professional
Mensajes: 1002
Publicado: Enero 21 2004, 21:13   
There is very very little to be gained by reverse engineering and recreating the Sunrise IDE circuitry, as like Rob said their prices consist mostly if not entirely out of production cost. So I do not think you can make it yourself cheaper. And besides, I think we all want to support Sunrise's current MSX activities by buying their products.

~Grauw
snout

msx legend
Mensajes: 4991
Publicado: Enero 21 2004, 21:17   
However, I think flyguille is trying to explain that the Sunrise IDE/CF interfaces are too expensive, looking at the amount of money most people earn in Argentina. If I understood correctly, he would like to support the Sunrise IDE interface if he could afford one. (earning $10 a day)
GuyveR800
msx guru
Mensajes: 3048
Publicado: Enero 21 2004, 21:40   
And it's not just the price of the cartridge, it's also postage and import fees.
flyguille
msx master
Mensajes: 1183
Publicado: Enero 21 2004, 23:24   
Quote:

There is very very little to be gained by reverse engineering and recreating the Sunrise IDE circuitry, as like Rob said their prices consist mostly if not entirely out of production cost. So I do not think you can make it yourself cheaper. And besides, I think we all want to support Sunrise's current MSX activities by buying their products.

~Grauw



For people where u$s45 represent a one day work or less, no is cheaper !

For people where u$s 45 represent four days of work then buyinig u$s5 of electronics pieces, is cheaper. Because in a poor country like argentina the chips are cheapers.
Always the poor people don't buy thing on internet. An other thing "for making in home yourself need electronic knowledge".

The MNBIOS supporting IDE Sunrise is great for Sunrise bussines.

I NOT THINK OR PLANING FACTORY NOTHING MY SELF.

I SAY, THE QUALITY OF SERIE PRODUCTION SUNRISE ARE COOL!!!!!!. IF A PERSON CAN BUY A ORIGINAL SUNRISE CARTRIDGE. WHY MAKE A LOW QUALITY IDE MAKING AT HOME?... BECAUSE THE QUALITY it depends on who make it.

THE SIMPLY ELECTRONIC CIRCUIT IS NOT A 15 STEP EASY GUIDE, NEED KNOWLEDGE PRVIOUSLY.
sunrise
msx professional
Mensajes: 649
Publicado: Enero 21 2004, 23:49   
<<
The MNBIOS supporting IDE Sunrise is great for Sunrise bussines. >>

Maybe , maybe not because for every product you sell onceYOU reach a limit
And that is without any doubt the case.
If we are now at a stage of 675 combi interfaces/ide only and about 100 , I lost couting in moment CF-INTERFACES.

But as said your are welcome to discuss it in a more private way
as regards usong drivers etc


flyguille
msx master
Mensajes: 1183
Publicado: Enero 21 2004, 23:53   
An other thing, ---> for sunrise people....

two WEEK before i send you all data of MNBIOS, like manuals, simply schematics diagrams, and thing like that.

The reason of that e-mail was found people like sunrise people, who can make high quality hardware of vanguard.

Well, i not receive any replies.

In other hands, MNBIOS is a non backward compatible bios, i not know the APIS of the sunrise IDE, only need four functions WR-SECTOR and LD-SECTOR, that runtimes without expect any hook or structure spected in a normal msx1 or 2, because that in all cases need a driver inside mnbios kernel , for can load the user interface and external drivers mount on config file.

If the Sunrise can collaborate GREAT, i need only this two runtimes, then i save a lot of time making a twin circuit, coding that runtimes and testing.

If i release the circuit of msx4 mother like as i propose, of cource include onboard the IDE.

it doesn't care who or who finally decide to manufacture them.

But the circuits can wait, MNBIOS is usefull in msx2 normal hardware.

I not found who develop the circuit yet.

I hope clarify more points.
sunrise
msx professional
Mensajes: 649
Publicado: Enero 22 2004, 00:00   
Sorry but that cannot be true , I have it for two weeks now but two years unless our webmaster has thrown the info away- what I cannot exclude-
Also too less time. The circuit is originally developed by Henrik Gilvad , a danish person and the software by henrik first and later on Jon de Schrijder from Belgium
But as said let speak in private further first !

flyguille
msx master
Mensajes: 1183
Publicado: Enero 22 2004, 00:01   
Quote:

Sorry but that cannot be true , I have it for two weeks now but two years unless our webmaster has thrown the info away- what I cannot exclude-
Also too less time. The circuit is originally developed by Henrik Gilvad , a danish person and the software by henrik first and later on Jon de Schrijder from Belgium
But as said let speak in private further first !




A TRASLATION ERROR!!!!! sorry I reedit

The circuit is originally developed by Henrik Gilvad , a danish person and the software by henrik first and later on Jon de Schrijder from Belgium
But as said let speak in private further first ! -------->>>> of circuit of Sunrise IDE?????

OK I are on flyguille@hotmail.com MSN
Bart
msx professional
Mensajes: 646
Publicado: Enero 22 2004, 00:18   
Maybe someone (or we all) with some spare hardware should make FlyGuille who has worked for 6 (?) years on MNBIOS a proud owner of some nice hardware like an IDE interface with matching HDD?

I'll throw in a 1gb IDE HDD Enough for MSX. Who has a spare ancient IDE interface for this guy? He worked his ass off to get this far...
If you send your working IDE interface to me ( or any other MRC admin) we'll pay for the shipping costs to Argentina!


Grauw
msx professional
Mensajes: 1002
Publicado: Enero 22 2004, 03:39   
Flyguille, maybe you can use the openMSX emulator for development and testing... It supports Sunrise IDE emulation aswell. Seems the perfect solution.


~Grauw
flyguille
msx master
Mensajes: 1183
Publicado: Enero 22 2004, 04:52   
Quote:

Maybe someone (or we all) with some spare hardware should make FlyGuille who has worked for 6 (?) years on MNBIOS a proud owner of some nice hardware like an IDE interface with matching HDD?

I'll throw in a 1gb IDE HDD Enough for MSX. Who has a spare ancient IDE interface for this guy? He worked his ass off to get this far...
If you send your working IDE interface to me ( or any other MRC admin) we'll pay for the shipping costs to Argentina!




That is not the idea, but, great if any can!.
karloch

msx addict
Mensajes: 399
Publicado: Enero 22 2004, 14:06   
Quote:

Flyguille, maybe you can use the openMSX emulator for development and testing... It supports Sunrise IDE emulation aswell. Seems the perfect solution.


~Grauw

Nice idea, since openMSX is open source and he could take a look to the code of the Sunrise IDE emulation.

About donating an IDE to him. Well, I guess that if everybody could put 5 euros, we would have enough to buy one and pay the shipping cost; but not much people would do it without seeying what is able to do the MNBIOS in their MSX...
Grauw
msx professional
Mensajes: 1002
Publicado: Enero 22 2004, 16:45   
Besides, I don't think much of this whole charity donation thing. It will create obligation for flyguille. And as there are other means to achieve the same (openMSX), and there is plenty of Sunrise IDE documentation (no need to go delving the openMSX sources), there is no real need for it either. There are others who have had similar problems in the past, or still have, and they have managed aswell with less means.


~Grauw
 
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