I get the point : IE is more amateur than Firefox .... but I use here "amateur" with a very bad meaning

And Firefox is more professionnal than IE without being commercial ! With the Adblock and NoScript extensions, I can eradicate all the publicity on the Net !!!

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Actually, it was an attempted joke. And commodore users should be wise enough not to visit this place... We know better than to visit their lair...

Why joke? If you don't respect a group of users of a machine, it's a joke.
If I defend my postures, and use "ironic comments" are unfriendly, and, of course, please abandon this forum, you are bad boy....
Snout, are this the same rules for all people?
All things, have different points of view. But you can't to criticize any words, and use other with same meaning. This, in my town, is hypocrisy.
And, of course, my words are the best, for make tons of jokes with your friends, like your comment about M$ users ...

Well, this can be other "neverending story" of post, and post .... Your reply, my reply, etc ... And I know the end -> JJLopez out of MRC for ever and ever ....

Is more easy that I shut up, and no write more in this forums. All people happy.

For end all of this, a words about next MSX Dev.

I see that this forum is really, and out of jokes, neverending. You have your arguments for use this limits or other limits. Other person, have his arguments, and is impossible make happy all people.
MSX Dev have a own spirit : Revival of MSX1 and "classic" gaming. If you want add MSX2 category, or add specs, you destroy this spirit.
Use 2 years for end the games is bad: I know tons of projects "neverending". Low specs = more games finished. Coders and designers have to concentrate in the game, only in the game and use scissors for design.
This is a problem for some users, I know, but this open the door to more entries.
Only a remark: Separate basic prize and asm prize. Yes, one BASIC game can be better than asm game. But asm game have more advantage. And jury is human. Is very complex to measure only a game for this: for the game. Asm can use tons of animated screens, and musics and win, while basic game is better than asm game in playability. Separate categories fix this problem.

But I know that is possible a solution: Two separate Devs. Original Dev, and "new" Dev. MSX2, no limits, infinite machine, bla bla bla ... (lol). All people happy.

And yes, this carry OTHER problem. Separe people in MSX group, but in this moment MSX people are totally separated.

Summary: If "new school" (joke) designers, need different limits for make Dev, please organize them! You have the tools to do this. Create web, create prizes, rules, etc ...

But, hey!, other time is my very personal point of view (and last, I supose).

I would love to see a BrainFuck game development contest... Would it be possible to create a BrainFuck++ compiler/interpreter/language that will allow to access VRAM? I'm pretty sure that it would be possible to include a new instrucción, say for example '@' that will switch from RAM to VRAM. Anyone? BrainFuck is for people who really need "low level" coding

We could call it TuringMachineDev'07!!!

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We could call it TuringMachineDev'07!!!

Wh00t? A complete Turing Machine at the developers disposal? That's way too big! Nah, let's just stick with a reg-ex competition, shall we?

To get back to the original topic:

MSXdev'07:
48kb ROM - 16kb RAM

more ROM = penalty points (perhaps this would make the comparision small v.s. big fair-er)
more RAM = penalty points (easier for developers but less MSX1 compatible.)

Can we live with this?

JJ:

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MSX Dev have a own spirit : Revival of MSX1 and "classic" gaming.

I don't recall MSXdev organisers ever saying anything about the gamegenre.
Define 'classic' .. does it include Nemesis3 and Shalom.. to name some games?

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To get back to the original topic: MSXdev'07: 48kb ROM - 16kb RAM more ROM = penalty points (perhaps this would make the comparision small v.s. big fair-er) more RAM = penalty points (easier for developers but less MSX1 compatible.) Can we live with this?

ROM size and RAM size are two different problems.

I should also add that too many penalties will not be positive signs to participate. If I keep apart the ROM size, we could say 64kb RAM as the 'reference' and bonus points for games that require only 32 or 16 Kb RAM.

In other words : let's try to think positive !

...and why not forget about quantity and start to think about quality. I mean, I can imagine a 8Kb with very few graphics; but really astouding or a game with incredible big levels who no one is gonna reach or explore (remember spectrum's underwurlde?, booooring screens) and other with only a simple level really funny (take sink king as example). The same goes for music, lots of SCC, MM effects; but dull music anyway, a simple PSG tune could be enough if it's a good song.
I'm not saying that I'm against that big games, it's only that when someone has to evaluate a piece of software can't be influenced by its size, never; so, a good 16Kb must be EQUAL than a 128Kb mammoth. It's only a question of be fair with the quality of the game.
As a bonus (too many penalties ) maybe the jury can consider the amount of data the game involves, tons of graphics, tons of music and so, behind all of that (although it could be rubbish) there's always a lot of hours of work

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In other words : let's try to think positive !

So if i change it to:
<= 48kb ROM = bonus points
<= 16kb RAM = bonus points

You agree?

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Quote: In other words : let's try to think positive ! So if i change it to: <= 48kb ROM = bonus points <= 16kb RAM = bonus points You agree?

That's better !

it's odd !

*if* rules state that 1M ROM is allowed .. then what's the point of bonuspoints in case a product requires less ROM ?

That's another part of the discussion, implying to organize (or not) an apart contest for megaroms.

But as jltusan has suggested, an equilibrium must be found in the points system between the quality and the quantity, so maybe an apart contest for megaroms is not requested. That's indeed the role of the jury to appreciate this equilibrium.

In this context, the only remaining BIG question should be the opportunity to create a specific MSX2 contest and to define the rules of this contest. Probably not so easy, certainly more difficult than a contest for games that can be runned on MSX1 and higher.

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it's odd ! *if* rules state that 1M ROM is allowed .. then what's the point of bonuspoints in case a product requires less ROM ?

We suggested:

MSXdev'07:
48kb ROM - 16kb RAM

more ROM = penalty points (perhaps this would make the comparision small v.s. big fair-er)
more RAM = penalty points (easier for developers but less MSX1 compatible.)

And if we want to give it a positive touch we don't give penalties for exeeding these limits. But bonus points for all that did not exeed. It will give the same results.

How about just putting a limit on the total of ROM + RAM?
So a developer can choose for example between 32K ROM + 32K RAM or 48K ROM + 16K RAM, if the limit is set to 64K ...

Ehmmm ... when I have said that 64 Kb RAM could be 'the reference', I had 2 ideas in my mind :

- for MSX1 games, it should be the maximum RAM and bonus points could be given for games that can be runned on MSX1 with 32 kb RAM or 16 Kb RAM

- for eventual MSX2/2+ games, it should be the minimum RAM (as it's the case of many Japanese machines)

But that's only a step in my thinking ... note also that minimum RAM for Turbo-R is 256 kb ....

So an eventual MSX2 (and higher) contest could be based on 64 kb RAM minimum and 256 Kb RAM maximum with bonus points if the game can be runned on machines with 128 or 64 kb RAM.