PS
I have some problems to integrate msx page mapping and bank switching with the hitech C. This compiler supports many flavours of rom and paged ram but none of them close to the crappy MSX slot management (they claims to support expanded memory on the Z180 and 64180, and user-defined banked memory on any other Z80 device, but, at the moment I cannot say how it works).

does anyone have faced the problem?
does anyone has experience with the z180 in order to uderstand how
to adapt his memory management to msx bankswitch ?

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ps. welcome to MRC and its neverending discussions

Thanks. Your reply is very interesting and you give several good reasons.
(I hope this "neverending story" doesn't steal much time from your Dev project !)

So, if several people agree, the choice of 128KB ROM+32KB RAM sounds well for next year's rules. Even 64KB of non-mapped RAM should be, despite many MSX1 have only 32KB of RAM (I've got one of these). Maybe easier allow as RAM as you want, but consider as positive the less usage of it.
If it helps to get better games, I see no problem in using more RAM. Most of us also own a MSX2/2+/TR machine, plenty of RAM, so, nearly everybody will play the games.

But this way it seems necessary to split the contest in two categories: Small and Big.
For example, 48KB ROM + 16 KB RAM as Small, and 128KB ROM+64KB RAM as Big.
So, people with few time or with no collaborators can fight for a prize.
I even miss a 8KB ROM category ...

But of course, the MSX-Dev team is who has to take the final decision about next year's contest. I only try to give some clues, as most of you are doing here.

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But of course, the MSX-Dev team is who has to take the final decision about next year's contest. I only try to give some clues, as most of you are doing here.

True, but we are not alone in the world , it is very interesting to check everyone's opinion. Without any doubt, we will consider every comment from users. So thanks drbyte and all for your reactions.

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(I hope this "neverending story" doesn't steal much time from your Dev project !)

Last night we changed the storyconcept again (we keep the engine), I have now, like, 3 months left to draw, map and compose the whole game So if we succeed, it's proof one could create a MegaROM in half a year of which only a few months are really intensive! ^_^

But, I think it'll be an improvement, it'll be a highly original game for any MSX type! (haven't seen one like this yet on MSX)

Actually, I don't know why this kind of dicussing: if you want to do a 16 KB game, you can do it with MSX DEV 06 rules. If you want to do any of the games of last MSX DEV 05, you can do it. MSX DEV 06 rules are more "open", but you are allowed to do everything you want, so what's really the problem with MSX DEV 06 rules?

Yours,

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Last night we changed the storyconcept again (we keep the engine), I have now, like, 3 months left to draw, map and compose the whole game So if we succeed, it's proof one could create a MegaROM in half a year of which only a few months are really intensive! ^_^

Well, as far as I know, the MSX2 BombJack is a game made from scratch and it took 20 days only (including packaging, promotion, etc.) The ASM complex routines in that game are awesome and it is megarom-sized (as a matter of fact, the disk version is a 360KB one, but there is a megarom version for internal purposes).
The GFX and Musics are also a remake of the original ones (not a sort of software-conversion or something).

The BJ Team is very humble at this point since they don't speak about that many often (maybe never?).

In the other hand, you are saying that "last night you changed the storyconcept again". As far I as understand, isn't there a previous design of the whole game? I think this is the typical mistake in amateur games.
The reason Konami games are good is the great game design which is even more important than how the thing has been implemented.

No matter how many thousands of colors, screen, maps, megabytes, sound channels, etc. you use for your game: if it isn't well-designed, it can't be a good game.


Greetings.

It's related to the story, not the engine. We had several ideas about a story, but it's either not scientifically approved (*cough* by far *cough*), or it's just too much work. You see, every story detail has to be drawn also, so creating a story is one thing.. realizing it is another.. You know, I typically want something more than 'save the princess from the evil dragon' orso. But I think I'll take a whole new approach now.

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It's related to the story, not the engine. We had several ideas about a story, but it's either not scientifically approved (*cough* by far *cough*), or it's just too much work. You see, every story detail has to be drawn also, so creating a story is one thing.. realizing it is another.. You know, I typically want something more than 'save the princess from the evil dragon' orso. But I think I'll take a whole new approach now.

So at this moment, do you have a game-in-process or the engine only?
If you don't have a previous gamedesign, what do you need an engine for?

I think a game must be designed completely (storyline, situations, cases, menus, screen, characters, behaviours, I mean everything!) before start the very first piece of code.

the game genre remains the same .. just another story, other gfx .. just like switching from Vampire Killer to Usas.

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[quote]I think a game must be designed completely (storyline, situations, cases, menus, screen, characters, behaviours, I mean everything!) before start the very first piece of code.

That's not often practical. Especially not if you're trying to push the MSX to the limits. A lot of times I would have to rewrite part of a story, or heck, I'd end up with a completely different game because some trick I wanted to do didn't work or wasn't fast enough. Ideally, yeah, you'd want to get most of your script-writing and planning out of the way before you start coding. In practice though, it's often not the fastest way to dev, and not the most motivating either. And I'd say motivation is pretty much 75% of the current project mortality rate. Even more important than time. If you're really motivated, you try to make some time...

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the game genre remains the same .. just another story, other gfx .. just like switching from Vampire Killer to Usas.

(O_O)
They are two absolutely different games!! They have a different game design regarding every aspect of the game! (except for some basic routines that have nothing to do with the game itself).
I can't see your point when you consider "to switch from VK to Usas" as a "story change".

I can stablish an useful analogy with traditional architecture. When you are creating a new building you have to design it completely before starting to dig the hole where the buliding will be raised.

If you begin to construct the roof and walls first, I bet the building will collapse at some point.

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Quote: [quote]I think a game must be designed completely (storyline, situations, cases, menus, screen, characters, behaviours, I mean everything!) before start the very first piece of code. That's not often practical. Especially not if you're trying to push the MSX to the limits. A lot of times I would have to rewrite part of a story, or heck, I'd end up with a completely different game because some trick I wanted to do didn't work or wasn't fast enough. Ideally, yeah, you'd want to get most of your script-writing and planning out of the way before you start coding. In practice though, it's often not the fastest way to dev, and not the most motivating either. And I'd say motivation is pretty much 75% of the current project mortality rate. Even more important than time. If you're really motivated, you try to make some time...

This style of 'thinking' is the main reason we haven't good amateur games, specially those games trying to emulate the Amiga or SNES with lots of unuseful stuff and horrible playability and gameplay.

Ok, let's continue making games 'in the practical way', guys.... The next MSXDev is yours for sure.

I'll continue playing classic games (^_^)

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Quote: the game genre remains the same .. just another story, other gfx .. just like switching from Vampire Killer to Usas. If you begin to construct the roof and walls first, I bet the building will collapse at some point.

Stop Warau! He is Wolf. He can make a building with 64k of Ram.

JJ, will you cut it out please?

warau: don't worry tho. At this point in the developmenttraject only the gfx and the story changes, nothing else. To get back on the VK vs Usas comparison, take Usas then and replace the gfx with Northpole-style gfx, change Wit and Cles with a Polarbear and an Eskimo, replace the 4 moods with 4 seals.. what we're doing is more like that.

It's very sad to see how people that make lots of things and give so many details about their work are criticized.
It's more easy to be quiet and only speak to destroy other people's work.

If you like to do things in a different way, then do them.

I will value the Dev games by the result, not by the name or by the way they have been done.

Making creative games is different than making a version. Making a version may be hard, but you always know what to do and when to stop. Creative games are more difficult, not for the coding but the concept, story, ... there is not a clear path to follow or a final point.

People participating at MSX-Dev are not being payed like Konami's employees, have not all the day to work, have not so many people in the team, and maybe they are still begginers. With no begginers, no masters.

And the analogy with the architecture, is poor.
I prefer to see a game like a city. You can make several buildings, and with the time, adding new ones, or demolish and replace old ones.
Do you think you can design and build a complete city? No, unless you copy the design from another city. So, you will have another Paris or Rome, but not an original city.

About playing only classics is living in the past. They are good but not enough.
If really only interested in classics, what are you saying here where people are interested in new games?

As said before, it's easier to destroy other people's work than making own work.