Actually it's not that easy to do a port of this game... the first couple of levels are, but further in the game it has a lot of enemies, and some really big ones... both for MSX1 or MSX2 it will be a challenge to re-create the game faithfully...

But yeah, I believe remakes are the way to go! There are several known games which could be made for MSX, and there's no way you could go wrong doing them - their "playability" has already been tested and approved

@PingPong: The emulator doesn't save to a file, but can't you do them from screenshots? I always do that way...

With the tiles, you just need an map-editor (in 2/3 hours one can be done from scratch in VB, maybe even less time), and with the tiles you can recreate the whole map (the worst part, and most time consuming...)

If you have the whole map in a single screenshot, I remember there was a tool for GBA developers that can break any BMP image into tiles and save them as C headers or something... but it isn't so perfect and sometimes it generates more tiles than needed... but it's always another resource to try it out!

@tokumaru: I don't know why you say GnG for Msx 2 would be too easy. And even if it were easy, I think most people here would applaud a project as ambitious as that.

@slotman: I wholeheartedly agree with you on the remakes part. I for one would love to see some remakes of some NES games (for instance castlevania, any 2 player contra, magical drop and stuff like that). But unfortunately I could not program (something like that) if my life depended on it...

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@PingPong: The emulator doesn't save to a file, but can't you do them from screenshots? I always do that way...

I Realized a part of the map editor. Works as described by you (i think)
Paste a bitmap from clipboard and generate the tiles.
Excluding the tiles used for score and alpha num chars in the fake screenshot there are almost 50 different tiles, most of them consumed by the tree...

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@tokumaru: I don't know why you say GnG for Msx 2 would be too easy.

Mainly because 8 sprites in a scanline each using 3 colors seems quite enough to make a platform with the complexity of GnG. Maybe I souldn't have said "easy", but the MSX2 is pretty much in the level of GnG, IMO. Wouldn't be an arcade-perfect convertion (and what's the fun in that?), but it would be a good port.

Things that "seem impossible at first" get me much more interested, such as porting it to the MSX1. I believe it is possible, and that it could look much (much!!!) better than the Spectrum or CPC versions.

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And even if it were easy, I think most people here would applaud a project as ambitious as that.

Sure, not arguing that. Seeing some classics running on the MSX (1 or 2) is always nice!

I personally enjoy MSX1 challenges more. The MSX2 is for me a strange machine, with some some powerful graphical features (compared to the MSX1) but lacks some other essential things. Maybe that's because I don't know the MSX2 that much. I usually stick to MSX1 only.

Anyway, the MSX1 wasn't meant to run scrolling platformers. And that's what's fun about coding them with it. It's something that was once though impractical or even impossible.

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further in the game it has a lot of enemies, and some really big ones... both for MSX1 or MSX2 it will be a challenge to re-create the game faithfully...

In most cases, big enemies can just be fought in a black background, so they can be drawn with BG tiles. Some just can't, and that's when we take some liberties, as most of the ports in the old days did. some things can change, the game doesn't need to be 100% faithful.

Again, sorry if I used the word "easy", I know it isn't. I just meant that it would be a bigger challenge if it were for the MSX1. Some things would have to be changed, there would be a lot of flickering (enemies should use the background whenever possible), but I think it could look and play better than many ports for home computers that were made at the time.

PingPong:

I would love to help you in this project.
Gng doesnt have that much tunes.

I adapted scc-blaffer's replayer and see (sound effects editor) and
I would love to make the music for the game (scc version)

Also I would love to help with programming or grpx !!

Keep up the good work !!
Its appreciated !!!

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Actually it's not that easy to do a port of this game... the first couple of levels are, but further in the game it has a lot of enemies, and some really big ones... both for MSX1 or MSX2 it will be a challenge to re-create the game faithfully...

Well, Konami made their arcade ports to MSX considering playability as the most important thing, not aiming to make them perfect arcade conversion (which in most cases couldn't be done)... And even if we could make a perfect arcade conversion of GnG, as someone said already, what's the point of that? I have an emulator, I can play the original game... It would be cool to have a MSX version of GnG, it wouldn't be the same as the arcade, and that's what would be cool, because it would feel a little different, but it would still be GnG. At least, that's my opinion...

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It would be cool to have a MSX version of GnG, it wouldn't be the same as the arcade, and that's what would be cool, because it would feel a little different, but it would still be GnG. At least, that's my opinion...

I agree 100%! It has to be a bit different to be cool! Versions that are too close to the original just go by unnoticed, 'cause they are too similar, but usually a bit worse here and there, just details. So people would rather go with the original! =)

Here is a bit of what I was doing a while ago with a Ghouls 'n Ghosts MSX1 port in mind:



I usually draw my stuff all scattered around like that.

A bit off-topic: As crazy as it may seem, I had also been working on graphics for a MSX1 Sonic game. If you want you can check what I have here: www.cygnus.kit.net/sonic_msx1.png (I wanted to make this a real Sonic game, unlike Sonyc that doesn't feel like Sonic at all)

Note that there may be some errors in my drawings, as I don't draw them with MSX-specific software. I keep the graphical limitations in mind, but I usually get a pixel or two wrong.

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PingPong: I would love to help you in this project. Gng doesnt have that much tunes. I adapted scc-blaffer's replayer and see (sound effects editor) and I would love to make the music for the game (scc version) Also I would love to help with programming or grpx !! Keep up the good work !! Its appreciated !!!

@Tokumaru & Norakomi

great!
your help will be apreciated.

As said more and more time i'm very stupid in grpx design.

[quote]A bit off-topic: As crazy as it may seem, I had also been working on graphics for a MSX1 Sonic game. If you want you can check what I have here: www.cygnus.kit.net/sonic_msx1.png (I wanted to make this a real Sonic game, unlike Sonyc that doesn't feel like Sonic at all)[quote]thats soow cool.
I was also thinking of making a Sonic - remake in screen 4 !!!
^_^

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[quote]A bit off-topic: As crazy as it may seem, I had also been working on graphics for a MSX1 Sonic game. If you want you can check what I have here: www.cygnus.kit.net/sonic_msx1.png (I wanted to make this a real Sonic game, unlike Sonyc that doesn't feel like Sonic at all)[quote]thats soow cool. I was also thinking of making a Sonic - remake in screen 4 !!! ^_^

because of easy scrolling and sprites capabilities?

Would be extremely interesting if you think to a unique code for both platforms, because there are a lot of similarities

you detect if v9938 or tms9929, then

a) If TMS9929
- internally and logically you scroll at 1 pixel basis, when you reach at 8 you do a charater scroll, because msx1 could not do smooth scroll.
- you use a set of msx1 adapted sprites.
b) If V9938
- internally and logically you scroll at 1 pixel basis, updating also vdp(18), when you reach to 8 you reset vdp(18) and do like (a)
- you use a set of msx2 multicolor sprites.

The worst thing here is avoiding a killer sprite flickering. Talking about msx1/screen2, the best way is imho to use patterns for the main character shots and some "static" enemies (as the shooting plants), in the way Nemesis was ported to msx. But, in order to make the shots' black halo less noticeable, the design of the "background" tiles must be as dark as possible...

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The worst thing here is avoiding a killer sprite flickering. Talking about msx1/screen2, the best way is imho to use patterns for the main character shots and some "static" enemies (as the shooting plants), in the way Nemesis was ported to msx. But, in order to make the shots' black halo less noticeable, the design of the "background" tiles must be as dark as possible...

Another way, using sprites made of two vdp sprites to achieve multicolor is to flicker each part of the same logical sprite.

For Example the main charater, if arthur is using planes 6,7 (white body and red hand / hair) when doing flickering is to remove planes 6,8,10 then 7,9,11. In this way the flickering is very less noticeable. But this works on msx1 only..

To see an example of how this techique work, look at choroQ. the car sprite had blue wheels and green body. When flickering there is alternance between wheels and body and the human eye almost do not notice flickering.

This tecnique, as used also by artrag doubles the n. of sprites / scanline.

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Another way, using sprites made of two vdp sprites to achieve multicolor is to flicker each part of the same logical sprite.

I guess this is a good idea, since at least part of the character will be visible at all times, and this reduces the effects of flickering.

For a Sonic game, I can see that some enemies could be drawn with background tiles (although that only actually looks good with black or very dark backgrounds), because they move in a predictable path, and it's easy to keep the background clean behind such paths. In GnG, however, the backgrounds are more detailed, since the levels are more horizontal. They can be black, on the other hand, which would be better for BG-based enemies.

But even if everything is made out of sprites, in which case 4 characters could fit on the same scanlines, each alternating between its 2 layers, that doesn't seem too bad (Be it Sonic or GnG).

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I was also thinking of making a Sonic - remake in screen 4 !!!

Screen 4 is like screen 2 but with better support for sprites, right? I think that even with standard MSX1 sprites Sonic looks decent, but the others (Tails and Knuckles) don't. I think that screen 2/4 can be used to represent some pretty decent Sonic-like backgrounds, with a little touch of originality! Maybe we should give it a try with Sonic, as well as GnG.

Sadly, I don't have the time to work on these things. I am, in essence, a programmer, but in the end I just draw a couple of sprites and background and forget about these projects forever. However, if anyone wants a hand with the graphics I'd be more than willing to help. On the Sonic side of things, I got quite a few ideas for the game engine. I've been sketching a NES port for years now.