Wolf, also, actually, the MSX scene is the more active in the 8 bit scene, by far. And I repeat: scene is far better than some years ago, and the results are totally evident. And yes, I forgot the demos, now in 2007 we can see new impressive demos for MSX 1. So why you say the scene is down when it's in one of the best moments ever?

As spl said, I really don't know what you're talking about wolf_. Perhaps some of your old MSX friends has stopped developing but last two years has been the best two MSX years in a looong time. Plenty of good games, demos, tools, emulators, new hardware, the OCM, etc etc.

I also think that now the scene is healthier than a few years ago; OCM, MSXdev, Manbow2, MP3 cartridge, DUMAS, USB cartridge, more specialized websites, new music productions by wolf_ ,... and by far the most active 8-bit scene.

C64 - 17 million sold
MSX - 5 million sold

Now use google an look for "Commodore 64 users" and "C64 users" and compare the results with "MSX users":

"Commodore 64 users": 1,930
"C64 users": 2,440
SUM: 1,930 + 2,440 = 4,370

"MSX users": 10,600
We even beat "Commodore users": 10,400

I call that 'MSX leadership'

Users aren't creators perse, and I wouldn't count with these google figures for this kind of information. Rather have a look at common demo-parties where non-MSX retro systems are rather active with new stuff.

Still, the *creating* activity is decreasing I think, and perhaps it's still plenty today. But what if all the active ppl are more and more tangled-up with family/reallife matters? Is there a younger generation to take over, or 'is this it'? If we sum Snowfall, Under water and Bounce all in 2004 *iirc the deadlines were all in 2004*, then there're over 50 demos/tunes .. entries in total, in one year's timespan.. and wasn't that xmas music compo also in 2004 actually? While demos are still being made today, I can't remember we had that many in 2006 or 2005. Of course one might argue that MSXDev also has a considerable amount of entries to cover up for the lack of demos, but the lion's share comes from countries like Spain. Where has the -say- Dutch activity gone?
Why are Dutch MSX fairs decreasing in size every year? Why is there nearly *zip* to do, compared with the older fairs in the 90's? The amount of Dutch MRC users truly doesn't compare with the number of visitors and booths on today's Dutch MSX fairs. I don't know the Spanish scene/activity much btw, I don't know whether events like MadriSX are relatively succesful compared to the number of users in Spain.

Or are we all internet-MSX'ers these days? Meaning that the various MSX websites have become what used to be reality, meaning that fairs are just not interesting anymore apart from social chitchat?

Anyway, regardless of these points, try to look into the future: knowing the arguments on the first page, do you think the future is bleak, or are we going the right way? (and try to look ahead a bit) Should things change? If yes: what?

btw, I'm not so much trying to prove a point, I'm merely trying to kickstart a discussion here, trying to suck out arguments and yes/no's.

Now a day MSX is only a hobby for us who were the msx users in 80's.
Getting older, priorities change, hobbies change and time for hobby decreases.
Development will fade with us.

i bet most of the following OCM projects will be done by some hobbyist or another when the OCM comes here:

- 100mhz z80
- vram memory mapper in a free slot for direct vram access
- msx 2+ scroll features
- some snes like tile features
- enhanced sprite features
- higher resolution text/tile mode (160x48 for instance if the 20Mhz/DAC converter allows it)


i bet if those things get done a few other things will eventually get done also:

- higer level language like Java/C# compiler (or Bytecode/MSIL to Z80 compiler)
- new games by people who could not program in asm
- new software by people who felt msx was lacking maturity for development


in my mind the MSX has a nice future ahead!

p.s. for all the people who are not easily convinced:
MSX is open source, what better (re-)start could you wish for?

Its true that there is less Dutch presence on MRC and probably fewer MSX productions made by Dutch people. I think a big reason is that dutch MSXers seem to dislike each other for some reason. That idoesn't give motivation to developers.

When it comes to fewer demos the simple reason is that MRC hasn't had one single demo competition since 2004.

Over all though I think your analysis iof the health of the MSX scene s completely wrong wolf_. I state it again, the last two years are the best MSX years in very long.

But sure, we can talk about how to keep it that way or make it even better

wolf_, I don't know exactly what are you thinking about but the Tilburg days from the mid nineties are over. In part due to the Internet revolution and websites like this one Btw, those fairs in The Netherlands were very crowded, right?

Did you say something wolf_, f*****g weeping dutchie?

Spain is the Silicon Valley of the MSX while The Netherlands is the 3rd world, a land full of flowers and dumb-asses

And ofcourse the padial new thingies are free of charge no prices tho

Of course, free of charge + free shipping

Quote:

[url=http://www.msx.org/New-MSX-cards-by-Padial.newspost4274.html]Did you say something wolf

Hey, dum(b)ass,! Learn how to spell infrared before doing da Wolf_-bashing, ey? ;-)

Quote:

Hey, dum(b)ass,! Learn how to spell infrared before doing da Wolf_-bashing, ey? ;-)

Quote:

"MSX users": 10,600 We even beat "Commodore users": 10,400

I tried:
"MSX users" 796 000
"C64 users" 833 000
"Amiga users" 1 400 000
"Spectrum users" ... 21 600 000

Google is not a criterion in this case...

Quote:

Quote: "MSX users": 10,600 We even beat "Commodore users": 10,400 I tried: "MSX users" 796 000 "C64 users" 833 000 "Amiga users" 1 400 000 "Spectrum users" ... 21 600 000 Google is not a criterion in this case...

Considering that MSX had success mainly in non-English speaking countries, the results that I got were not bad (we are using an English word: 'users').