ppz, how about this:

MSX fairs get smaller, and I personally think: less interesting. Each year the same ppl, the same content, and also the same LACK of content. At least not really enough content to enjoy oneself for a whole day there. Ofcoz, I haven't been to non-NL MSX fairs (MadriSX seems to be of a considerable size), so I'm now first of all addressing NL fairs. I've this impression that things are either standing still or going backwards, but certainly aren't going forwards. Might be me tho, but I've heard other ppl saying the same.

As you can see, that Ball Quest game and SymbOS are things that started outside the MSX but found their way to MSX nonetheless. So here's stuff to think about:

Let MSX fairs become 'Z80 fairs' and invite Speccy and Amstrad folks (or other active retro systems carrying a Z80). When it'll work out great then you gain:
- fair size
- booths
- stuff to see on booths
- new faces/friends
- new art, ideas, creation techniques

I think everyone will gain from it, MSX ppl as well as the speccy/CPC ppl. Home-computers (and their users) in the old days were always rivaling each other (esp. the Amiga and C64 were high on the list ), but I think those days are long gone, and it's about time to unite. One could invite other retro systems as well (C64/Amiga etc.), but perhaps the common Z80 factor would be the most logical to do first.

So, any thoughts on this subject?

I like the idea, so you're going to organize this new Z80 fair?

well, there could be 2 ways:

The Nijmegen/Bussum organisation takes on this idea (chances are that both wish to stay pure-MSX tho, so we can't push 'em.)

or:

A new crew takes on this idea


But let's first see other reactions..

seeing there are plenty of polish people in the netherlands, they could join in with their speccies

yeah

good idea!

That's a great idea indeed! I was already thinking about organizing a "CPC meets MSX" party in my town (Moers), which is quite close to the dutch border (30mins from Nijmegen). I think the best locations for such a party would be any town near the dutch/german border, so Nijmegen, Venlo, Moers or whatever. In this case I think we could expect a lot people from both systems.
In Germany we already have these "multiple retro computer" parties, the most important (and not too C64-dominated) is the XzentriX, but it's deep in the south. Currently I don't have any idea, where all the Spectrum people are living here. It's strange, but there is not much contact between the Spectrum scene and the CPC scene in Germany yet (and we don't have an MSX scene at all here). I had the feeling that it's completely different in Spain. Everyone is at least active on two or more systems (exactly the three Z80 systems we are speaking about).
So such a MSX/CPC/Spectrum event in our area could introduce lot new interesting stuff.

My informants tell me that Nijmegen will remain MSX-only .. so it's either Bussum or a new one. Prodatron, can you tell us how big the CPC scene is? Would that scene double the MSX fair visitor count already?

Hi, Podatron. I live in Düsseldorf ... 30 minutes from you by car! If you organize a z80/MSX/CPC (egal was) get in contact.

I'm organizing an MSX fair, but I don't mind having a minor amount of other Z80-based machines in the room. It's just that it should be very attractive for hard core MSX fans to visit the fair. Of course I hope there will be new things to see. If not, there's still a very nice occasion to speak to many of the MSX freaks in real life and have a fun day together

manuel, the idea is to actually make it more attractive for hardcore MSX users by inviting related systems. The problem with hard core MSX'ers being "against" other systems (even related systems) is very 90's. I think those classic point of views are long gone. I for one would be interested in how Spec/CPC ppl draw their gfx, how they make their tunes, etc. Really, we need fresh blood, and there's nothing non-hardcore about that I think. The idea of a Nijmegen fair being twice as big, filled with new faces/products, would be great, no?

How about a development competition that rather than having rules like 4k, 16k etc is that the game must be developed on more than one platform. Might get artists from Speccy or CPC doing MSX or even C64 art and the same with the coders.

In fact you could set a development theme like Racing game or platformer, and then have 3 or 4 teams which people can then join. Might build up a bit of rivalry, and incentive.

Would be interesting, but I think we should consider that a second phase. I think a meet 'n greet 'n sniffaround on a fair is phase one..

Do those other systems have girls?

Seriously, I remember a fair (I think it was Zandvoort, quite a while ago) of which the organisers had decided to allow a small number of other systems, namely game consoles, at the stands.
Some people were disgruntled with the idea of sharing the hall with "the enemy".
Certain individuals fell to taking universal remote controls with them and continously zapping the screens on the stands of the other systems.

Although it was pretty funny, I think I agree that, maybe, "we" have reached a certain maturity which allows us to see it all in perspective now.

As long as there's no pity or despair involved...

I like the idea!
One question: I do not expect the distribution of ideas, visions and overall "fun" to be a problem at all, but how can we trade and exchange our products, ways of development, utilities and "raw data"?

I'm not talking 'against' the other systems. I just think that most MSXers are not very interested in them.
Getting more non-MSX systems on a fair doesn't fix the problem that there isn't much news on the MSX front. (Although, a long term effect *might* be that there will be more news...)
Still, I'd like to keep the Nijmegen fair an MSX-fair. And again: I don't mind some non-MSX folks to show up as well. But IMHO it should be >50% MSX.

Quote:

Let MSX fairs become 'Z80 fairs' and invite Speccy and Amstrad folks (or other active retro systems carrying a Z80). When it'll work out great then you gain: - fair size - booths - stuff to see on booths - new faces/friends - new art, ideas, creation techniques

I agree with you. Although I'm from Spain, in Barcelona there are only MSX meetings. I like your idea, for me it's like two F1 pilots in the same team. Both learn due to their rivalry and the team obtains the best of them. I don't looking for confrontation with other platforms but to learn new and unknown techniques and methods which all users can adapt to their machines. The best example is SymbOS. It's not necessary to abandon the pure MSX meetings. Remember we're
alone...