V9990 is not part of MSX

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By lintweaker

Champion (437)

lintweaker's picture

10-02-2022, 07:24

Do not get your hopes up. I tried to get these through utsource a couple of times (2018, 2020) without avail. But, this time they are listed as 'used'.

By gdx

Enlighted (5585)

gdx's picture

10-02-2022, 09:49

No problem for me. Utsource sometimes sends defective chips and tries to save time to avoid refunding but that's fine if you pay with Paypal.

By Popolon_fr

Resident (64)

Popolon_fr's picture

10-02-2022, 12:08

Indeed, there is still a small and relatively comfortable stock. Although having a cloned version, will not be so uninteresting. Although on the original, there is something written on it that makes this chip a bit more familiar

By lintweaker

Champion (437)

lintweaker's picture

10-02-2022, 12:49

I've requested a new price quote, let's see what they come back with (price/quantity).

By ducasp

Hero (560)

ducasp's picture

10-02-2022, 14:49

gdx wrote:
Quote:

My Sunrise GFX9000 cartridge stayed in the drawer for about 20 years after purchase because there were no games to use with it.

Me too but it's a good product though and that's why I keep it like KdL.

ducasp wrote:

I've seen so many people really telling product X or Y is trash because it is based on certain architecture

Luckily these people are there. There are too many poorly designed products. And these people allow us to make a choice better suited to what we are looking for.

Do you believe MSX VR is a poorly designed product and deserves all the bash it received because it is based on Raspberry Pi board? If so, we better agree to disagree, don't want to start what will surely be a fruitless discussion. If not, then we probably are on the same boat and I did not express myself very well about it.

I don't believe that lack of 9990 makes a MSX3, if it ever exists (remember, we are talking about Nishi, he is a dreamer and quite a few times have promissed and not delivered), a bad product. Why is 9990 more important than any other custom interface that sold more than it and are not supported and no one is crying for it? It surely can be important for some people, but bashing the product because it doesn't support a niche interface that has almost no pratical use for legacy software and will have almost no pratical use for new software targetting anything better than current MSX resolutions and that will cost so much resources to build, makes no sense to me.

By gdx

Enlighted (5585)

gdx's picture

10-02-2022, 15:44

ducasp wrote:

Do you believe MSX VR is a poorly designed product and deserves all the bash it received because it is based on Raspberry Pi board?

I don't think the bashes it received changed the minds of those familiar with the VR's specs. Some people were disappointed maybe because they expected something different. The problem is not that but the exaggerated reactions as often.

V9990 or not, the MSX3 will be what it will be. Those who want to use the V9990 will do as before. Which is fine.

By iamweasel2

Paladin (707)

iamweasel2's picture

10-02-2022, 17:23

ducasp wrote:

I don't believe that lack of 9990 makes a MSX3, if it ever exists (remember, we are talking about Nishi, he is a dreamer and quite a few times have promissed and not delivered), a bad product. Why is 9990 more important than any other custom interface that sold more than it and are not supported and no one is crying for it?

I think everyone agrees that V9990 is not perfect, it has its flaws, but it is not like V9990 is being preferred to SCC, OPL4, IDE or whatever hardware you can think of. V9990 is a VDP, and can only be compared with another VDP.

You are right, V9990 has few softwares, but at least we have GBasic, there is SymbOS and there are some games and demos written to it. And it works on any MSX, even a MSX1, and you have a good share of active MSX users that has one V9990 cartridge.

This new VDP from Nishi, if it ever comes to life one day, will have some kind of GBasic so we can write Basic programs to use it ? Will it work on older MSX machines? Will it come with some softwares (demos, games) so the users can appreciate it? I don't think so.

See what the problem is? If V9990 has few softwares, what about this one? I imagine it will come with no software at all. Why should we prefer this new VDP instead of the one we already have, if it will come with no software at all ?

V9990 is here for more than 20 years, and only in the last years got some more attention from the developers.

I wonder how many years it will take for this new VDP to have the same amount of (few) softwares that V9990 has today.

By Grauw

Ascended (10604)

Grauw's picture

10-02-2022, 17:42

Even openMSX, which has a V9990 implementation since 2004, still regularly gets bug reports of the emulation not matching the real hardware for nearly every V9990 software developed. This is a clear indication that there is not enough knowledge and software out there to get a robust emulation.

I think it would be a multi-year project to get a proper V9990 FPGA implementation, involving a lot of research and writing an extensive suite of tests. There is a reason no V9990 core exists already. For Nishi’s project to have V9990 support, I think is asking for something unreasonable. (And personally I would rather prefer no V9990 at all over a half-assed implementation with many incompatibilities that I as a coder will have to consider and make workarounds for.)

However I don’t know what the precise architecture of the “MSX3” project will be, but if it’s anything like the 1chipMSX, if some brave soul decides to implement V9990 in FPGA, then it can be added by the community at a later point in time.

By ducasp

Hero (560)

ducasp's picture

10-02-2022, 21:04

Grauw wrote:

Even openMSX, which has a V9990 implementation since 2004, still regularly gets bug reports of the emulation not matching the real hardware for nearly every V9990 software developed. This is a clear indication that there is not enough knowledge and software out there to get a robust emulation.

I think it would be a multi-year project to get a proper V9990 FPGA implementation, involving a lot of research and writing an extensive suite of tests. There is a reason no V9990 core exists already. For Nishi’s project to have V9990 support, I think is asking for something unreasonable. (And personally I would rather prefer no V9990 at all over a half-assed implementation with many incompatibilities that I as a coder will have to consider and make workarounds for.)

However I don’t know what the precise architecture of the “MSX3” project will be, but if it’s anything like the 1chipMSX, if some brave soul decides to implement V9990 in FPGA, then it can be added by the community at a later point in time.

It is an ARM system on chip that also has a large FPGA (like MiSTER DE10 nano, but from other manufacturer), so it is feasible that community add it on either side of the stuff (ARM or FPGA), as Nishi keep telling legacy to be on FPGA and new stuff most likely on ARM.

By gdx

Enlighted (5585)

gdx's picture

11-02-2022, 08:34

According to the latest pictures that Mr. Nishi has published it is a ZYNQ from Xilinx. Details are not visible. There also ESP32 from Espress for the wire less network.

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