MSX Engine vs Apple M1

Par sergarbes

Expert (116)

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21-04-2021, 19:25

Hello people,

I was looking at the last Apple Keynote and I though. The idea behind of the Apple M1 is the same of the MSX Engine a kind of a SoS. Am I right? If so, MSX scene was one of the first system behind that idea, cool!

Cool Cool Cool

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSX-Engine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_M1

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Par geijoenr

Champion (391)

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21-04-2021, 20:08

lol

Par st1mpy

Paladin (947)

Portrait de st1mpy

04-04-2023, 13:24

This blog is interesting. He looks for Toshiba's msx engine in Toshiba word processors.

Par Grauw

Ascended (10820)

Portrait de Grauw

04-04-2023, 14:35

You're right, and Nishi in 2004 (?) around the introduction of the 1chipMSX elaborated on this as a concept they already tried to achieve in the 80s.

Adrian's Digital Basement on Youtube recently made a video on an Arabic MSX, and there's barely anything on the board apart from the MSX-ENGINE.

Par TomH

Champion (375)

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04-04-2023, 18:04

Though Apple uses "unified memory" to mean both that the RAM is on the package and that both the GPU and CPU use the same physical pool, whereas the MSX is notable for being a rare 8-bit exception to the latter sort of unification.

Par DarkSchneider

Paragon (1030)

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05-04-2023, 14:37

That a has name that is SoC (System-on-a-Chip or something similar Tongue ). Probably is not the first time you hear it.
Game consoles are the same from a time ago (PS4/XOne).
Raspberry Pi etc.

Par TomH

Champion (375)

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05-04-2023, 17:13

DarkSchneider wrote:

That a has name that is SoC (System-on-a-Chip or something similar Tongue ). Probably is not the first time you hear it.
Game consoles are the same from a time ago (PS4/XOne).
Raspberry Pi etc.

SoCs usually don't include RAM; e.g. the one on the Raspberry Pi doesn't, and neither do any of the various MSX-Engines. Apple's is part of the much smaller group that includes the RAM.

Which may be why Apple's top-of-the-range Mac Pro is still sporting an Intel processor at the time of writing, something like 2.5 years after Apple's computer SoC debut.

EDIT: bit of a digression, but the first ARM SoC that I'm aware of is 1992's ARM250, which was used in at least one Archimedes.

Par DarkSchneider

Paragon (1030)

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05-04-2023, 18:33

Well can include some parts or not:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_on_a_chip
In some systems the RAM is embedded but not in others.

Nice SoC the Apple Silicon but waiting for them to include hardware ray-tracing to think about changing from M1.

Par TomH

Champion (375)

Portrait de TomH

05-04-2023, 21:53

DarkSchneider wrote:

Well can include some parts or not:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_on_a_chip
In some systems the RAM is embedded but not in others.

Yeah, definitely. And this is the computer science way. We could probably get into a never-ending debate on whether there's a real distinction between microcontrollers and SoCs and, if so, exactly which chips go into which bucket, if we wanted. But who has the energy?

DarkSchneider wrote:

Nice SoC the Apple Silicon but waiting for them to include hardware ray-tracing to think about changing from M1.

My experience with an M1 has certainly been flawless, but I happen to be exactly in the target market — completely unaffected by the RAM limits, the screen limits, etc, that tend to feature in a lot of the justified criticism. Apple clearly knows what it wants to build.