MSXdev22 goes all out

MSXdev22 goes all out

by MSXdev Team on 24-06-2021, 15:56
Topic: Challenges
Tags: msxdev22, MSXdev
Languages:

While MSXdev21 is still in progress and promises to be yet another amazing edition, the MSXdev team has announced the rule set for next year. MSXdev22 will break free from the Classic category and opens up to accept all MSX hardware games. You asked for it, and holy cow - they listened.

The MSXdev compo was once set up with MSX1 specs in mind to show what that machine is capable of; to bring back the glory of ye olden days. As most of you will know - in this form, the contest had very tight restrictions. Each and every entry was required to run on an MSX1 with 16KB of RAM. Throughout the years, the homebrew scene has proven fair and square that nowadays, it doesn't take a professional game studio like Konami to create true smash hits with such restrictions. Some MSXdev editions, however, allowed for other hardware specs too. As an experiment, the upcoming '22 edition is one of those.

With MSXdev22 any piece of MSX software is allowed to be submitted! That's right, anything goes. From humble MSX1 with 8K to MSX turbo R with OPL4 and V9990 extensions running on 1MB of RAM. Sure, go ahead! The Free Style category, as it is officially dubbed, will be the one and only category for MSXdev22. All games are rated equally on their quality. Meaning, that next year the MSXdev Team will make sure to once more have a knowledgeable jury aboard. A panel of jurors who can tell the difference between a 2MB ROM, V9990 game that requires R800, but which plays like you're attempting to cut down a tree with a plastic spoon, or a 32K ROM that runs on any MSX, crammed full with enticing gameplay and artfully crafted graphics and sounds.

With that, the long running MSXdev compo awaits an interesting edition next year. Although this is not the official kick-off, there's no excuse to not start planning your next project!

In the meantime, enjoy MSXdev21 which runs until October 1st 2021.

relevant link: MSXdev official web site

Comments (66)

By Parn

Hero (659)

Parn's picture

24-06-2021, 16:21

Great news!

Although I'm constantly amazed by the work done by our fellow MSX1 developers, I always wanted to make something for MSXdev myself, but I've never been especially thrilled about being restricted to MSX1. I hope this can bring even more amazing suprises. Thanks and congrats to the MSXdev Team for being open-minded about this. I'm very excited about what the future has in store. Running Naked in a Field of Flowers

By tfh

Prophet (3008)

tfh's picture

24-06-2021, 16:26

I'm looking forward to what kind of releases MSXDev'22 will bring. A nice MSX 2 / 2+ SHMUP (horizontal or vertical) would be great. And since the rule-set is already known, people can start already!

But first things first: Let's see what MSXDev'21 will bring us Smile

By aoineko

Master (169)

aoineko's picture

24-06-2021, 16:39

Great news!

Some prizes category could be split in two:
- Best Graphics: MSX1 | MSX2/2+/tR
- Best Sound: PSG | SCC/OPL

But other are not hardware related (Gameplay, Polish and Originality).

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9905)

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24-06-2021, 17:29

By Wlcracks

Champion (442)

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24-06-2021, 18:29

This is great news.

By Uninteresting

Master (245)

Uninteresting's picture

24-06-2021, 19:03

And I can then sponsor a prize (some money) to be given to the best game using MSXdev'21 specs, i.e., MSX1 with no extra hardware? Is this correct?

By valkyre

Hero (570)

valkyre's picture

24-06-2021, 19:26

Sounds good to me!

By Grauw

Ascended (10159)

Grauw's picture

24-06-2021, 19:55

Meanwhile, the donations for MSXdev’21 are going through the roof!

(And as someone who grew up with MSX2, I also like next year’s rules.)

By tfh

Prophet (3008)

tfh's picture

24-06-2021, 20:02

Grauw wrote:

Meanwhile, the donations for MSXdev’21 are going through the roof!

(And as someone who grew up with MSX2, I also like next year’s rules.)

Well.. you do have something in the works. I don't know what your planning is, but maybe it could be a MSXDev'22 entry?

By albs_br

Champion (343)

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24-06-2021, 20:26

WOW. Really great news!!

By ducasp

Champion (466)

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24-06-2021, 20:28

Really happy about those news, today is a really happy day Cool

By Latok

msx guru (3843)

Latok's picture

24-06-2021, 21:16

Nice, but the way I read it, the specs your game uses will affect its rating. I believe thats a wrong approach. A game should be judged by just how good it is, whether it's playability, gfx or sound. No penalty points should be given because you used dual plane mode to get that parallax scrolling right. That will end up in terrible discussions. Just rate the game, please! Only condition should be it runs in some kind of MSX set up. Thats true freestyle Smile

By raulsantacruz

Hero (595)

raulsantacruz's picture

24-06-2021, 21:17

Excellent news!! All MSX models are MSX systems! Indeed SCC , FM , V9990 , etc. Different categories is the perfect solution to have a fair competition!

+10000 for the rulers!

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9905)

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24-06-2021, 21:28

I think the jury points will be given relative to the expectations of a certain chip, hence the "knowledgeable jury". Someone submitting Nemesis 2 for MSX 1 would probably win over someone with a g9k game featuring simple graphics. Following that logic, Space Manbow would win over Nemesis 2 for all the right reasons. If one compo anno today gives us both Nemesis 2 and Space Manbow, no-one has a reason to complain.

By Randam

Paragon (1417)

Randam's picture

24-06-2021, 21:59

This is great news. I love the great games the MSXdevs have brought forth but I also like higher speced games. And like wolf_ and others said: I would love to see the best games, win whether that is Nemesis 2, Space Manbow or X-tazy. Hopefully this will bring the best for all msx gens!

By MsxKun

Paragon (1038)

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24-06-2021, 22:02

So now the question is... does a MSXVR count?

By ro

Scribe (4541)

ro's picture

24-06-2021, 22:08

Latok, it is exactly what you think should work. Ratings are for the game, not the specs.

So, Wolf, jury panel next year?

By mariocavalcanti

Expert (96)

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24-06-2021, 23:46

Great news, my friends! Big smile

By mariocavalcanti

Expert (96)

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24-06-2021, 23:47

A very good suggestion. Smile

By sd_snatcher

Prophet (3486)

sd_snatcher's picture

25-06-2021, 03:05

This is like a dream coming true!

But please do not go back on the following year if not that many >MSX1 entries end up showing. Changes like these might take some time to take roots.

By tcruise

Master (133)

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25-06-2021, 09:21

And to assist I will be looking at extending my Sprite & Tile Editor to support the newer graphic modes.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1417)

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25-06-2021, 14:10

Finally! Freedom!
Exelent news!

By AnsiStar

Expert (101)

AnsiStar's picture

25-06-2021, 20:40

Hi Folks!
I`am very close to the MSX I System. When I`m thinking of the past Dev contests, i`m thinking of gems and highlights like "The Cure", "Uridium" or "Zombie Incident" and so on. I was and still be amazed what is possible. I thank you all who were involved to this.
But I`am also excited and full of joy about the Dev contest in 22!! Wink

By PingPong

Prophet (3793)

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26-06-2021, 10:14

umh, i think the rating should have parts not related to hw capabilities and others related to.

for example concept, playability are unaffected by hw capabilities.
when rating gfx/sound however, the graphic quality should be evaluated taking into account the hw capabilities.
For example a multiplayer smooth scroll on a TMS9918 VDP should have a very high rate than the same on V9990 because on the latter this is a lot easier to achieve.
the same apply to sound. if one game uses MoonSound and produces sound like beep, blip and other things that a simple msx1 can do with the sound port, it's rating should be very low, at least if moonsound is a required hw

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9905)

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26-06-2021, 10:16

That was the point I made earlier, hence the "knowledgeable jury". Cool

By PingPong

Prophet (3793)

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26-06-2021, 12:52

wolf_ wrote:

That was the point I made earlier, hence the "knowledgeable jury". Cool

Wolf, do you think that the jury would rate the games in wrong way because they are msx1 biased?
In that case, i think it would be easy to spot this.

By ren

Paragon (1887)

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26-06-2021, 14:10

wolf_ wrote:

Following that logic, Space Manbow would win over Nemesis 2 for all the right reasons.

What you say ?

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9905)

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26-06-2021, 14:26

PingPong:

I think a jury should know exactly what an MSX1, MSX2, MSX2+, tR, G9k, FM-PAC, SCC, MSX-Audio, x amount of RAM, x amount of ROM, and a disk can do, and what should be expected from it. The more you can do, the more is to be expected. This is regardless of the gameplay quality of course, a small game can be insanely fun while a high-spec game may look nice but is kinda boring to play. But alas, when artwork is considered, the jury should consider what is to be expected.

Ren:

I think SM is among the best games of any MSX platform, others would probably be RPG's like SD-Snatcher, DS:TLoH and Xak TToG, and I think Aleste 2 would also rank highly. I'd say it's fair to state that - regardless of how well done Nemesis 2 is - SM does use all the extras of the MSX2. So, in a contest, SM would win over Nemesis 2.

Now, it might actually be a different story when comparing Nemesis 2 with Hydefos. I'm not so sure which game would win there.

By Bengalack

Champion (425)

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26-06-2021, 17:35

Great! This is truly a nice addition the fantastic msxdev.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1417)

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27-06-2021, 15:52

I really hope the jury doesn't judge the games based on what they know or expect of each hardware generation;
Expecting a Nemesis2 for msx1 or a SMW for msx2 or a GnG for v9990 is not realistic, those games took many years to develope (or a large, highly funded professional team in the case of Nemesis2)
So judging on what they expect for each system would not be fair.
For example:
What does people expect of a v9990 game?
Most people expect a NEOGEO looking game or a Capcom cps2 game such as Dungeons and Dragons - "shadows over Mystara" (for real, people have asked me to do that game in particular and several NEOGEO games...) while the v9990 P1 mode is actually closer to a 1984-85 arcade hardware, 10 or 20 times less powerful than what they expect/imagine.
How many people can actually judge objectivelly what an v9990 is capable of doing with a z80 or a r800?
I am not talking about people who have read the specifications on a PDF or a web page, I am talking about people who experienced the actual limitations and have finished something with it (because most who try fail to finish something and therefore they don't get the full experience. It is very different to start something as a demo than actually finishing a whole game, with all the perks that go with this experience).

I can count them with 1 hand.

IMHO I belive the games should be judged as any player judges them:
How you feel after you played them, based on the whole experience.

You don't need to be a wine curator in order to know if you like a particular kind of wine more than another, and you don't need to know how it was made in order to enjoy it.
The final taste is what counts.

But because sometimes things get lost in translation on the internet, I want to assure everyone that I am not trying to be a dick to anyone, just giving my 2 cents.

By Parn

Hero (659)

Parn's picture

27-06-2021, 16:48

wolf_ wrote:

Now, it might actually be a different story when comparing Nemesis 2 with Hydefos. I'm not so sure which game would win there.

IMHO Nemesis 2 is the best one. Just a better game all around. Not especially challenging in respect to technical achievements, so in that particular aspect only I would rate Hydefos higher.

By wolf_

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27-06-2021, 19:20

Kai:

msxdev entries have since almost forever been judged in the areas Gameplay, Graphics, Sound, Polish and Originality. It's probably based on what the jury wants though, I'm not sure whether these five are a fundamental msxdev law that can't be changed. If it doesn't change, then the artwork will be judged, so will the sound/music. Those are the areas where a jury needs to know what chips can do and what can reasonably be expected. Rest assured: there have been many FM-PAC games that would loose from Usas' PSG music (which, in my book, has the best PSG music in MSX history).

As for G9k: it's right that there's been very little software made for it, so you could say that no-one's ever seen the edge of the G9k-universe yet. Yet, at the same time, you know that it has pattern mode, which is quite like MSX1. But with better pixels, a better palette, better sprites, and with a multilayer that doesn't require a hackjob with tiles. One aspect that people need to keep in mind is the amount of sprites to deal with. As you can use more sprites per screen and per line: before you know it, you are using them, and you'll need more CPU cycles to check all the collisions. So, best would be to not forget that a sprite limitation does create a good balance. It's just that things can look better. And then the question is: how much better? And does it justify the G9k-potential? That's up to the jury.

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1417)

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27-06-2021, 20:30

Yes, I know the theory, but in practice, people "work" differently.
They still expect NeoGeo games out of a v9990 with an 8 bit processor (for example).

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9905)

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27-06-2021, 20:41

Hence, you need a "knowledgeable jury" Tongue

By erpirao

Paragon (1230)

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27-06-2021, 21:12

please, a sonyc 2 (or a remake of sonyc made by pazos)

By Kai Magazine

Paragon (1417)

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27-06-2021, 23:16

Regarding v9990 at least, "knowledgeable" is the tricky part.
There are just not enough finished games and much less in several v9990 graphic modes in order for people to even compare, and much less people who actually have finished something and have a real understanding of what can be expected.
Reading and understanding the technical specs from the pdf is very different from what can actually be achieved with a z80 or r800.
For example:
Yes, you can put 128 sprites on screen (in order to make a big boss move, together with all the bullets and all the regular enemies), but for a z80, sending all those instructions alone eats up a big chunk of the z80 resources already, so you have little to no CPU resources for the rest of the game, much less when you add collisions.
Add opl4 music and sound (sending the 24 channels of data to the opl4 requieres A LOT of cpu cycles) and you have no CPU left.
People don't grasp this unless they actually try and suffer through this.
I could go on all night with examples such as this.
People who can judge this are people who actually suffered this, a lot, and made it to the other side alive, and there are not many of those, so knowledgeable jurers, at least for v9990, very tricky.

Anyway I will not insist anymore.
I will wait for the actual rules to be posted and for the jury to be revealed before I decide to participate. That seems the best bet at this time.

By santiontanon

Paragon (1526)

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28-06-2021, 18:21

I actually think that we don't really know "what to expect" from the more advanced MSX hardware, as there are not too many full-fledged projects that have tried to exploit them to their max capacity. As Kai was saying putting everything together is tricky. While there are demos of very fancy music, or just very fancy graphics, etc. when you try to put it all together in a game, the story is very different. So, I think if the competition gets lots of entries, this could be a great opportunity to start learning what can really be done with this hardware.

I would honestly not worry too much about judging the games, what would be more or less fair, and just take it as motivation to get new projects going on, and get a batch of interesting games! And then, as for the final ranking, there'll be disagreements as always, but I think it's ok Smile

By raymond

Hero (547)

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28-06-2021, 19:39

Great to hear!

I hope this will give a boost in the usage of various hardware extensions. I would love to see more GFX9000 games!

By wolf_

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28-06-2021, 20:43

santiontanon wrote:

While there are demos of very fancy music, or just very fancy graphics, etc. when you try to put it all together in a game, the story is very different.

G9k should be easier than making an MSX1 game though. If a developer keeps an MSX1 mindset regarding game genre and scope, G9k will do just fine. It's just that you have the added advantages of better graphics, more sprites and scrolling. Especially the latter two are what cause headaches when doing this for MSX1.

So, for all those who fear cold feet: just think of an MSX1 game, then uplift all the graphics to G9k standards and go for P-mode. Will it be easy? No, but that's because making a game is not easy. But there shouldn't be much of a difference compared to the MSX 1 games we've been making since 2003'ish.

By santiontanon

Paragon (1526)

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28-06-2021, 22:15

Oh, don't get me wrong, I didn't mean it as a deterrent! Let me say what I was thinking in a different way: my point is that this is an experiment year and it's going to be hard to have fair evaluation criteria, but that's ok!!! Even if I am sure there will be disagreements with the rankings, as an experiment, I think it will be a very good learning experience. So, I am very supportive of the idea to extend to other MSX generations/hardware! It'll be an interesting year! (although I'll probably still focus on MSX1, I am very interested to see what other people can do without constraints Smile )

By ro

Scribe (4541)

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01-07-2021, 10:43

so, got me thinking...
did we ever did a poll on "Best shooter" ? Smile

By ren

Paragon (1887)

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01-07-2021, 14:53

So personally I favor N2 over SM. But if they would be new games in this compo, then prob. SM would win indeed, but I don't think it's a straightforward matter. SM is shallow story wise ('arcade style'), where N2 is not. Both are immersive (that should be a big judging factor), but in a different way. (@wolf_)

By GhostwriterP

Hero (626)

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01-07-2021, 21:20

Definitely curious about what this contests will bring. I am tempted to join myself but I am probably too busy with other things, so I'll think it over.

By Manuel

Ascended (18247)

Manuel's picture

01-07-2021, 21:56

Don't think, just start working on the entry Smile And when you miss the deadline, you still have a nice project to finish after that Smile

As for MSXDev22: fantastic! I'm really looking forward to see what people come up with.

Regarding the target hardware: just create a cool game and use the hardware that is the most fitting for it.

By MSXdev Team

Master (226)

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03-07-2021, 00:37

We are very sorry about any confusion on the judgement of the games.
As English is not our native language, we assumed that this statement was clear enough:

Quote:

All games are rated equally on their quality. Meaning, that next year the MSXdev Team will make sure to once more have a knowledgeable jury aboard.

Apparently, our English writing skills fall a bit short here, so please accept our apologies for that.

By ren

Paragon (1887)

ren's picture

03-07-2021, 11:33

Hmm, sarcasm? Perhaps better to respond with something more substantial and/or address some questions, e.g. from Uninteresting (which I think is quite funny/interesting Smile)

Uninteresting wrote:

And I can then sponsor a prize (some money) to be given to the best game using MSXdev'21 specs, i.e., MSX1 with no extra hardware? Is this correct?

I believe, like this year's edition, you can do that (although this is a bit different from the categories given as example):

People who donate either money or tangible prizes are also allowed to specify a certain category to which they wish the reward will go to. Think along the vein of “Most Original Game”, “Best Soundtrack”, “Highest Ranked Shooter”, etcetera.

(Btw, unless I read over it, this is not mentioned @ https://www.msxdev.org/msxdev21/)

By ro

Scribe (4541)

ro's picture

03-07-2021, 13:53

Hai,

Ren, you're right. The initial Kick Off post is out dated regarding sponsoring. I corrected it.

MSXdev21 winners get the option to choose an item of choice out of the Winners Loot Box, which contains sponsored items. First place winner gets first choice, followed by second place and so on.

Hope that clears it up.

ps. we're about to release a news post about sponsored items for MSXdev21.. keep an eye out on MRC Smile

By Uninteresting

Master (245)

Uninteresting's picture

03-07-2021, 20:21

My question on a sponsored MSX1 prize wasn't intended as a joke. While my love for MSX is effectively limited to PAL MSX1, I wouldn't want to counteract the intended purpose of the eased limitations.

By ren

Paragon (1887)

ren's picture

04-07-2021, 10:15

I didn't think you were joking btw, and I think it makes a valid/interesting sponsoring category.

Now I suppose we wait to hear from MSXdev whether they are okay with it?

By ro

Scribe (4541)

ro's picture

04-07-2021, 14:38

Hai,

As one of the organizers of the msxdev21 party, lemme just thank you all for the positive feedback. We are as exited as ya'll about next year's edition too. The official kick-off, around the end of the year, will explain more on that edition. For now, this news post is just a heads-up so folks can prepare their plans already.

Meanwhile, let us enjoy MSXdev21 (and the summer, of course)

cheers!

By Micha

Resident (38)

Micha's picture

21-10-2021, 09:45

Hello everyone,

I'm working for a few months now on an arcade-like inca-themed (smooth) sidescrolling platform game for MSX1, and planned to submit it to MSXdev'22.
But after reading the jury report of MSXdev'21 where my game PAC-01 was butchered for its terrible gameplay (on gameplay it ranked 24th out of 32 participating games) I realised I'm really bad in dealing with (in my eyes unfair) criticism on my games. This really got to me; and I don't want to go through this again. So I will not submit the game to MSXdev'22. I even doubt if I will ever finish it, motivation is way below zero now...

I just don't believe anymore that the style of games I make will have a fair chance in this format.
As you can see on Raven and PAC-01, I like arcade-style games from the early 80's that fit perfectly on the MSX1 (I believe the MSX1 is the best 8-bit homecomputer to develop these kind of games on) such as donkey kong, pacman, galaga, frogger; with a focus on graphics, polish; and sound effects that are more important than in-game music; I like the sport of trying to get everything within 16 or 32kb game; and above all: I make finished games. But apart from the graphics all the other aspects are clearly and sadly not appreciated by the jury, I actually got punished for it.

So, I'm out of here man... and I want to thank everyone for the overwhelmingly positive feedback on my games in this forum !

By Briqunullus

Champion (428)

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21-10-2021, 10:30

PAC-01 only 24th on gameplay? How?

By hamlet

Scribe (3735)

hamlet's picture

21-10-2021, 10:43

PAC-01 was one of my clear favourites. A great arcade game with an incredible addictiveness. Easy to learn but difficult to master. That's how it should be. Raven also came up with a fresh game principle, nice story and control.
Both games ended up at the top of the ranking (3 and4 !!!), which is only fair.
If there are opinions that see it differently, don't let them discourage you. Your games have many fans!

By Grauw

Ascended (10159)

Grauw's picture

21-10-2021, 12:16

Hi Micha, of course I understand your feeling that “this isn’t the format for me” to release your games in, you’ve explained it very well. For some reason people have gotten it in their heads that every game must be released as part of a contest, because every game that is not gets the same question: “why don’t you submit for msxdev?”.

But please don’t be discouraged! The gameplay score is just one individual person’s opinion, and I believe that if you look at the comments in the other categories (e.g. polish) there are extremely positive remarks as well. I say a top-3 ranking is an excellent result, and I enjoyed playing your game.

By Micha

Resident (38)

Micha's picture

21-10-2021, 13:54

Grauw wrote:

Hi Micha, of course I understand your feeling that “this isn’t the format for me” to release your games in

Well... it is and it isn't. To be honest, without MSXdev, Raven and PAC-01 probably would have never existed. I need a deadline to finish my games, and I also need competition to really push myself to the limits and not being lazy. And I believe this is the same for many other participants.

So MSXdev is a good thing ! I also like the very positive community here, there isn't a lot of whining or personal feuds going on (and I really don't want to be the one that starts that). The combination of these 2 keep the MSX alive.

On the other hand, participating in MSXdev costed me and the other participants a lot of time and effort. Manyears of coding and hundreds of thousands lines of codes packed in 34 games. So that puts a tremendous responsibility on the shoulders of the organisation and the judges.
And when I read the gameplay comments on PAC-01, I wasn't dissappointed, I wasn't sad, but I was furious! It still feels like a nasty personal attack, even though I know it wasn't intended as such. And that really kills my motivation.

So basically I couldn't make my games without MSXdev, and now I can't make games with MSXdev... oO

I hope I explained my frustration and anger without doing damage to others, because that is the last thing I would want. I'm willing to participate in a constructive discussion with the MSXdev people and give my opinion on how to prevent frustrating the developers and better deal with the huge responsibility of the judges.

By mzoran

Master (137)

mzoran's picture

21-10-2021, 15:06

@Micha: seems to me like you expected to win the competition. Getting positive feedback does not mean that everyone likes your game. Some people simply do not like the genre. And I suspect that happened in your case. Judge giving points for gameplay seems to enjoy puzzles or has simply seen one pac-man clone too many.
Please do not give up on making games. I expect more excellent work from you. This is mostly about having fun, not a cutthroat competition.

By Uninteresting

Master (245)

Uninteresting's picture

21-10-2021, 15:28

I am sorry to hear how you feel.

I would be surprised if your games weren't be reviewed in various retro magazines, if not in an MSXdev coverage section then as solo reviews. While the jury has made its decisions here, maybe the magazines' reviewers will rate your games higher. (Or lower... my MSXdev'18 entry got 6.4/9 by the jury and less than half of that in the magazine.)

By ren

Paragon (1887)

ren's picture

21-10-2021, 16:14

Originality 20/20 though :) (some points for the original 256 team as well? ;)) (don't get me wrong, I think it's a great game / rendition / piece of work :))

Having a quick glance, I think it makes more sense when every jury member would give their points, and the final score in a category would be the average of that. I think that's better than to leave an aspect (especially when it's not a 'specialized' category) to a single individual to judge.

For 2022 it looks like some aspects will be more challenging to judge, as a certain discerning eye regarding the different platform/hw limitations/possibilities/challenges might be more of a necessity.

By SjaaQ

Master (247)

SjaaQ's picture

21-10-2021, 16:24

Set your feelings about whatever is said about your entry in MSXDEV aside from what you are doing. Whenever possible set you goal for yourself or the community that will be playing the game. There will always be someone who does not like whatever you made. Or as we say "If it is not a remake of a Konami (or another classic), you propably won't win MSXDEV". But yeah, that is exacly what some of us are thing to make "not a Konami". If the jury does not like it, too bad. When we made dotattack we released it for MSX Beuningen and not for MSXDEV. That was just for extra publicity.

I liked PAC-01 as well. Nice an polished if you'd ask me.

By ARTRAG

Enlighted (6570)

ARTRAG's picture

21-10-2021, 18:58

I agree with ren, evaluating the gameplay is very subjective and the best way is to have a panel of judges evaluating the game under any aspect and later average the scores.

PAC-01 is a technical miracle, round and polished under all its aspects. I love its sfx too, coming directly from the 80s
Micha do not give up! Contact a publisher and release it as a cartridge. It will become an instant hit in sales.

By Randam

Paragon (1417)

Randam's picture

21-10-2021, 20:55

Please, please don't let the outcome for your game in msxdev21 influence your actions. I loved your both Raven and Pac-01 and even knowing what you made of that and your description for your new game makes me anticipate it already! Like others already said judging has a subjective aspect to it. And know just from the reactions here that your games are well received!!! Lots of polish and nice games. You could have just as easily been number 2 even with similar scores since there is only one point difference with number 2. Please do like Artag says and release both as cartridges. I and many others will buy it. Please reconsider... Especially seeing the judging for next edition will have another dynamic since it needs to be over different generations. If you REALLY don't want to enter anymore in msxdev there is still other options. Like develop it as a virtual entry (same deadline, constraints etc) and then release it. Or there might be other ideas to keep the motivation of a contest.

Please reconsider! MSX users loved your entries.

By ~mk~

Champion (303)

~mk~'s picture

22-10-2021, 06:35

Not sure my words will help. I hope they do.
I love classic arcade games, so if you ask me, both your games are on the top of my list. Specially PAC-01 because I love Pac-man games. I must say I didn't find the time to play them (PAC-01 and Raven) as they deserve yet. But I tried them as soon as they were released on emulators and both have fantastic gameplay.
So I share your feeling of disappointment. Without even imagining the work you have put into programming them. You are clearly proud of your work and that is great (you definitely should be).
However, I think your feelings are clouding your mind. There is not right or wrong when it comes to gameplay preferences. Perhaps MSXdev jury does not have enough diversity of taste, and that's it.
I second Randam's words, please reconsider and tell us more about that inca-themed game Smile

By Juanmi

Expert (127)

Juanmi's picture

23-10-2021, 09:15

Hi Micha, greetings from Spain Smile

I join in all the positive comments about your game. Without disparaging the other entries, I thought PAC-01 should have been the winner of this edition.

Msxdev, like you said, it's a good opportunity to develop a videogame, as they impose a deadline and this "forces" you to work on the game little by little in order to be able to finish it in time. But, by other hand, MSXdev it's the perfect machine for destroy good developers like you, demoralising people who have made good games and have seen them relegated to unfair positions in the rankings. Just think that the result of the contest depended on only 5 people, only 5!!.

In this edition, the playability of the games has depended on Cas Cremers, and I don't agree with him at all.
I've been reading the pdf with the comments, and Cas has compared Alien Attack with Zanac style...Really? I don't believe it! In my humble opinion, he's totally wrong

Zanac it's the BEST Shoot 'Em Up for MSX1, which manages to convey a sense of speed not found in Alien Attack.

The main thing in a good vertical ship game is fast scrolling. Games like Zanac, Final Justice or the fantastic Hype from The Bytebusters. A good example of this style is Imanok's recent Shmup!

Alien Attack it's more like a Knightmare style with different graphics, it's a slow game even if the sprites move smoothly.
With these words, I don't want to take any credit away from Alien Attack, I'm sure there is a lot of work behind this game.

Cas Cremers gives 13/20 in gameplay to PAC-01, that's totally unfair. He said " doesn't have a lot of variety"... what more variety should there be in a PACMAN style game?... spaceships, final bosses? Sad

All in PAC-01 works like a charm, very smooth scroll, very well designed and very nice sprites. You can't ask for more from this game.

Micha, as other colleagues say, that the result of the contest does not allow you to stop developing more games for our beloved MSX. Go ahead and sell PAC-01 in cartridge format, the real answer will be demonstrated in the game sales. I would like to have a physical edition of PAC-01 in my MSX game collection. Wink

By Zilog80ASMer

Supporter (8)

Zilog80ASMer's picture

23-10-2021, 09:41

As I may have mentioned before It is still a mystery to me why my game manual was not considered when awarding points for my game Bookworm in MSXdev 21. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me,on this,has an answer? It would be nice to know the reason (it maybe useful to know).

By Zilog80ASMer

Supporter (8)

Zilog80ASMer's picture

23-10-2021, 09:59

By the way, it is allowed sell my unaltered game on a cartridge . I wrote

"The above means you can sell the unaltered game, on a physical cartridge, if you choose to do so."

at the github for the game at

https://github.com/ZeeeightyASMer/Bookworm

In other words you do not need to pay me anything if you sell my unaltered game. In other words you do not need to pay me any royalties or money for selling my unaltered game.

By Timmy

Master (176)

Timmy's picture

23-10-2021, 14:31

I haven't had the time to play many entries but I liked PAC-01too (and other games too, but this one is nice.) I normally don't like pacman games but it's nice and refreshing.

To be honest I never really cared about the scores in MSXDev, it's very subjective, and from previous entries I know that I won't get many points if I don't put music in, for example. (And I still intentionally didn't put music in this time, either. There's a good reason for that, but maybe I'll talk about it one day.)

There is just not much to do about the scores being subjective. Years ago there used to be public voting but in the end only very few votes were submitted and in the end they stopped doing it.

I guess for me MSXDev is just and excuse for a deadline so that I could finish some unfinished games lying around. And now you have 2 finished games, and you should really be proud of that. I find that if I just make games that I want to play myself, then in the end I have 2 more games in my games library.

I think what you have achieved is great. What you do now is up to you. You can keep making MSX games, or sell them instead of doing MSXDev, or do something else. Whatever you do, please do something that you enjoy, and don't worry too much about if other people don't like it. Focus on the people who do like your stuff instead, and on your games themselves. Smile (I'm probably lucky that I'm already an established Spectrum games developer, so I have this problem a bit less.)

Also, well done everyone!!!