OPL4 - Should I use it in the next game?

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By ro

Scribe (5061)

Аватар пользователя ro

17-10-2022, 15:35

Mayhaps in MRC next. Yes.

ontopic. I myself am a sucker for PSG, good old hardcore tunes. It fits the machine and its age. I do not own an OPL4 device, never had. I wasn't interested to begin with. Same goes for that V9990 thingy... meh.

With the introduction of MSX, Philips and that other brand, gave us MSX-Audio, which I can live with. Sure. The MSX-Music is in the later machines (msx2+ and up), so yeah, definitely an option. SCC, I love that sound. Is it MSX standard? nope. Does it fit the machine and age, sure.

But the OPL4.. dunno, it is out of balance. You can have good sample and shit, but the machine (MSX) is out of balance using z80, old vdp. You know, it just doesn't fit. Unless you perhaps go the extra mile like NOP did recently. Perhaps.

/oldfart

By ducasp

Paladin (712)

Аватар пользователя ducasp

17-10-2022, 15:55

Since both 9990 and OPL4 are I/O only devices, you don't need a real fancy slot expander, you can have a dumb slot expander that just doubles the slot to two (and perhaps you add some extra power to it) and they will work just fine. Also, for those that have SM-X with three slots, there are two slots that in the current OCM-PLD firmware share the same physical slot usually, you can use those two slots to hold a 9990 and an OPL4 (and you can even use slots that are allocated to, i.e., SCC mapper, it works fine too). But I guess there are not too many computers with shared slot connections (I know that Gradiente Expert had one in the back, not really a slot but had all 50 pins and you could turn it into a slot, but it was shared with one of the regular slots), so that might not be really useful information for many...

In regards on whether to use it or not, my oppinion is, do you want to use it or not? Because, let's be honest, no one is going to be famous or make real money making MSX games... You should be doing it mostly because it is what you want to do and is going to make you happy... So, if you think you have the talent to tame that OPL4 beast and want to do it, do it... I know for sure that as lame I am with music, PSG already overwhelms me, reason I've never made a real attempt to make a game... Tongue

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (10135)

Аватар пользователя wolf_

17-10-2022, 19:32

ro wrote:

But the OPL4.. dunno, it is out of balance.

So, was Sphere out of balance? Wings? Or are you more the Sillycone Christmas kind of old fart? Or heck, maybe TwZ Xmas 2002 (which was 18 FM + 6 wave). :P

So, let's discuss exactly what actually defines this balance. Is it polyphony? Is it the type of sound? It's not like an OPL4 song can't be thematically rich, but having non-instrumental samples (clusters, loops, reverbs etc.) does open the door to atmospheric music. Is atmospheric music out of balance?

Same with the G9k; when does a video chip stop being 'in balance'?

Now, if you'd say that for example Space Manbow and Aleste 2 are still the best shooters on MSX, then I tend to agree and all. But are the new chips to blame for the fact that our scene isn't like Konami or Compile? Keep in mind; during the 90's when these new chips appeared. the commercial companies had left the party already. What was left was the scene, like people in their late teens or early twenties. I guess there's only so much you can expect from people who were also moving to other systems and studying. Besides, no-one had time to make such high-spec games back then. Everyone was making music disks and disk magazines. :hannibal:

By SjaaQ

Champion (381)

Аватар пользователя SjaaQ

17-10-2022, 20:26

it is easy to say you don't like the out of spec hardware. Mostly when you don't have it. We have all been there.

I've had a OPL4 since it came out and I am glad people make stuff for it, like Sphere and Wings. It inspires me to go on create even more ridiculous stuff, just because I can.

Try to understand how the V9990 works and you will see this fits the MSX 100%. Totally not out of balance. When I did not have the money for it in the nineties, I did not like it either. But now my MSX3 is one with 512K ram, OPL4, V9990 and a 7.14Mhz CPU (until somebody makes something faster and Z80 compatible).

By msd

Paragon (1532)

Аватар пользователя msd

17-10-2022, 20:58

Opl4 can be even used for some existing commercial software .

By ro

Scribe (5061)

Аватар пользователя ro

18-10-2022, 07:51

@Wolf, you took it out of context. It should say "out of balance on an msx machine". You know, have super crispy audio but low graphics and poor z80 speed. Yes, that includes wings and sphere too. (doesn't mean I don't like'm)

By AxelStone

Prophet (3199)

Аватар пользователя AxelStone

18-10-2022, 09:28

Fast answer: you are the developer, and you decide what to use. If everyone feels obliged to release MSX1 compatible ROM games, we will always be going round in circles.

Sales Discontinued is a good example that something different can be done using different MSX specifications. Basically do what you feel you want to do!

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (10135)

Аватар пользователя wolf_

18-10-2022, 09:41

ro wrote:

You know, have super crispy audio but low graphics and poor z80 speed.

Poor Z80 speed is relative of course, in Usas the Z80 was more than enough. Anyway, I can see how OPL4 music behind Eric and the Floaters is off-balance. But by your own (fuzzy) logic, you'd have no problems with OPL4 music behind games like Space Manbow, SD-Snatcher and Solid Snake. Right?

By ro

Scribe (5061)

Аватар пользователя ro

18-10-2022, 09:58

Yes, I would actually.
Let's say the distance between OPL4 and VDP and Z80 is too big, it feels disconnected (out of balance). To me. Though I must admit, in Sales Discontinued it might fit. I had a total different feeling with that game in general. gheh.

btw, wolfy, did you notice you just passed the 10.000 posts boundary? #beer!

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (10135)

Аватар пользователя wolf_

18-10-2022, 10:16

Yeah, I know, #10000 was in the news thread from Lilly.

But, distance between OPL4 and VDP and Z80, that's so fuzzy. Make this distance more clear. Is it the type of sound (e.g. big ensemble sounds, real drums etc.) or is it just 'the chip being big', regardless of what you do with it and what it sounds like? Because with Sillycone Christmas I pointed out that an OPL4 can sound like an SCC on stereoids.

Now, if you don't like the wave ROM, then I'm with ya, that one sounds truly dumb and this whole GM thing doesn't fit the MSX at all. But custom samples? They really can sound like anything, including retro sounds. And if you'd include the FM part, that's just two Music Modules with a few extra details.

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